So, basically I got into hardcore through skateboarding basically - I had a few friends I skated with that were metalheads, I was too young to even care about music much - but then when I was about 11 I decided that I wanted to be different than my older brother who was into BMX and hair metal sort of. I wanted to make my own mark or stain as it was probably thought of in my family. I was raised with cool but definitely conservative parents - who considering everything were pretty mellow and trusted me for the most part but also helped fuel my teen age and youthful angst and feeling of being pissed off, misunderstood, and like a real outsider freak. I had bad skin - which as one can guess - pretty much sets you apart weather you want it to or not - plus it messes with your self confidence unfortunately as well as an 11 year old. But I found a comfortable place amongst the punks that I could fully express my artistic side, my creative, and rebellious side. I wanted to do my own thing though rather than trying to sort of just fit in with another group. I wanted to feel OK to be me - not judged, criticized, picked on, or beat up. Luckily I didn't care much what anyone else really thought - that never really mattered too much to me for some reason. I had a different idea in mind about what I wanted and I wasn't about to let anyone really get in the way of that concept - I try to keep an open perspective nowadays - but not really much has changed in that regard for me. I feel it is very important to be doing what you feel passionate about, love doing, or feel like you need to be doing - otherwise you are clogging up the channels of your own life. I don't wanna ever be there. The process in which I ended up into hardcore was really organic - I was exposed to the music and ideas through a lot of innocent methods - like fanzines, skate magazines like Thrasher, going to record stores, and reading, talking and living what I was into. It helps to find someone you can talk about these things with - bounce ideas off, etc...I wrote a ton of letters, did mail order, went to shows, made zines, traded tapes through the post, played in bands, put on shows, made shirts and graphics for other bands and my own, it became a part of my daily life as much as anything else did. My parents used to think and tell me it was just a phase I was going through - it has only been 30 years I guess since they told me that - so maybe it is a long phase. The era I got into it was fun for me - the later part of 1983 and as I mentioned before - I was 11 years old. But you gotta also remember that a few things if that seems young to you : 1) I was six feet tall in 6th grade- I was always a head taller than anyone around me growing up basically. 2) From being a skateboarder I was used to being a solitary loner by choice-and it makes you kinda seek out your own path or trip. 3) Many of those I skated with were quite a bit older than me generally as well.
What was the meaning of hardcore for you ?
Hopefully some of what I just wrote will explain what hardcore means to me - I would just add that I have always looked at punk or HC as a house with many windows and doors in it, stairways, and extra rooms. I was generally almost always most happy when I didn't feel like those doors were shut, or locked. I liked the idea that you could open up the windows and see something new, you could go explore other parts of the house, and find things you didn't know existed, if you just stayed in your room, with the doors closed always. I wanted to open the back and side doors and learn about everything else too. It was just the impetus or starting block on which to build all your other ideas and adventures on. I want to think of the world in not just punk terms - I am grateful for the knowledge and opportunities it afforded me- the experiences obtained while actively pursuing being a part of it, but i want to be a citizen of the whole globe / world. Not just a guy into hardcore only. Maybe that means i am not a purist - I am totally OK with that. I caught a lot of grief for being different from some of my punk friends, when I branched out into listening to other things they didn't understand, appreciate, or even know much about. I don't care really about that now - but I do remember feeling kinda confused when many many years later they too would start to check some of that stuff out and be super zealous, and almost preachy about how "sophisticated" they now were for liking those things . I have always liked rawness - it translates into many forms. I enjoy raw, unfiltered, unprocessed, rough around the edges, not perfectly framed or constructed things. It makes more sense to me, and feels more warm or inviting to me. It seems like humans had a say in it instead of robots, machines, and rulers. Hardcore can fit that I suppose, or it can be as cookie cutter as people make it. It is and always has been available as a choice - you gotta decide - which side you want to pursue though basically - it is up to you though for sure.
Were you straight-edge at some point ?
Yeah there was a time from the ages of about 14 to about 18 that I thought of myself as straight edge or at least found some meaning in identifying with it as an important factor in my life personally. That being said - I never wanted to look at it as a reason to separate people, or be self righteous, as much as I thought it was sort of a personal way to be subversive to the ways in which normal society said you needed to be. I guess it that way i wanted to distinguish myself or mark myself as different than that - but when you do so - it can be exclusionary, elitist, and sort of alienating. Based in the fact that we are all just humans - some don't have X's on their hands, & some do choose to put them on their hands. So to me it makes no difference. I have never taken drugs, smoked a cigarette, drank a sip of alcohol, ever-not even once just see what it is like. I have smelled most of those things but that is about as much as I ever needed to know it wasn't for me personally. I don't want to use my time to worry about what other people do or don't do so much. I figure no one really honestly cares or should care about what I don't do - so I rarely ever talk about it nowadays - unless it becomes an issue for someone else - which it rarely does. I wanna be given the chance to not do it, so I am totally fine giving others the same courtesy and respect of doing what they feel like they want to do for themselves. I don't care in other words about identifying myself as straight-edge - since about the age of like 18-19 maybe latest. Other things took my interest i guess. I do find it kinda amazing that it still exists as a movement within the punk circle. Extremism within any culture is kinda boring and i don't get much from thinking or worrying about it. I would much rather focus the time and energy I have towards creation, expression, and sharing the things i have come away with as a result of doing just that. Not to pretend like I am any better at anything than anyone else. It is all personal. I view any choice as very personal.
Can you talk a bit about the Salt Lake City hardcore scene ?
I honestly know very little about the Salt Lake hardcore scene personally, I lived in Utah once in 1990 for about 7-8 months. I liked the bands The Bad Yodelers, The Stench, Brainstorm, Iceburn, and maybe a couple others ? I think Raunch Records, and more specifically Brad Collins deserves full credit for any scene related discussion in that area - he really was the one in my opinion that built the infrastructure for any scene to thrive - he documented it, nurtured it, was the only real outlet for it to exist, and distributed all the music that local and other bands put forth through his doors, and on his radio show. He is back at it from what I hear. He is the man to speak with on that matter - I really do feel unqualified to speak on such things, but I do know it was he that made most of it happen. He is a killer guy too - super funny and tweaked in the best possible way. He was always super nice to me, as was Brad Barker who worked there with him. They are the reason there is / was ever a scene there as far as i can see. Honestly - it is that simple, and the kids who wanted it to happen.
Can you talk a bit about your relation with Iceburn ?
As far as my relationship with Iceburn goes - I kinda feel as though it would not be too out of line to consider myself a silent partner, or invisible member of the group almost - I never was an official member musically - although we did try to do a one off band once under the name Dizzy. We played only once - and no one even would clap when we finished - that should let you know how well received it was. I will take partial credit for being an influence on the band - I know that it must seem cocky - I don't mean it to be, I just remember turning Gentry and the guys onto some key things that helped shape the course of the group - be it bands, composers, ideas, concepts, and just being friends with them really. I went on several of their tours, did most of their cover art, t-shirt graphics, and was one if not their largest fan and champion. I hope they won't be bummed I say that. Gentry is one of my best friends - he sang and played guitar and did tuvan throat singing at our wedding. I still to this day value and respect everything he says, and plays on. He is a rare person. In fact i would pretty much describe him as a musical genius - something I would never say about nearly anyone else. He is truly capable of doing anything he would ever want to do with a guitar and if at first he can't - he finds a way to eventually make it happen. The guy makes his own amps, and has remade most of his guitars to better suit him, and his preferences while playing. He is serious believe me. Listen that is all you need to do. I feel lucky and honored to know him. He has given me, and everyone who listens so much to consider - it is a real blessing no matter what your take on blessings is. He is beyond gifted, but works twice as hard at developing his playing as anyone I have ever met. He can write full orchestra pieces, and has. He rules. Iceburn were a great band, they pushed it about as far as you can in a single band - they were always like 3 records ahead of themselves on tour. They have hours of legit material unrecorded, full pieces of music that never happened, I feel like they were not only miles ahead of anything else around them, but people have still not caught up to what they were doing 20 years later. But they are starting to luckily. Eagle Twin is very sick also. Not to be glossed over or overlooked. Gentry is a real deal music man. Try to dispute it - I dare anyone.
Gentry and Rich, keeping an eye on each other...Wait, isn't this Zack de la Rocha in the back ?!
I became a drawer by default - it is all I could do otherwise. Words were not on my side growing up - I was shy as hell. Didn't want to even look at people when either of us spoke. Luckily I had access to pencils and paper and later other materials. It has always helped me survive most definitely. It also happened super organically - just did it all the time, and I do mean all the time. I had to.
What is the meaning of art for you ?
Art for me is really "the results of living with your eyes open". Simple but complex too. I love looking, and seeing things - and I can't just always stand by and not try to do something about it. It is in everything, or should be at least.
Who are the people who had the biggest influence on you ?
The list of people that have had the biggest influence on me is for sure artists - musicians, those that tinker, thinkers, makers of things, outsiders, the humble people everywhere in the world, the poor, and forgotten, those I have loved and do love, my family and friends, my wife and son, my self when I am honest with myself. I love making lists and was tempted to list 1000 of my closest friends, enemies, and favorite artists. But I want to keep it open ended. I want to always have an on going list for this.
Is there anything from France that inspire you ?
As far as France goes - there are many things really that I like and think are very intriguing , inspiring, and enjoyable. Let me try to list some of them - first thing that comes to mind as far as music goes - Lard Free, Catalogue, wasn't Mahogany Brain from France?, Aluk Todolo nowadays, my good friend Stephen O'malley lives there in Paris - he is in Sunn O, KTL, etc...but is from the States. I like a lot of artists & composers from there - Erik Satie, Gilles Deleuze, Metal Urbain, where is Yann Tiersen from ? I like Starcow gallery, I like the outside markets there, the food is very good. Best pastry I have maybe ever had was there, hmm? Mark and Eva Newton, a photographer named Raphael , Jonone, a lot of the old school french painters are historically important and of interest. Let me think of some good ones those were just on the top of my tongue. Hold on. Debussy, Pierre Henry, and Pierre Schaeffer, Luc Ferrari, the term avant garde is french - so that is pretty fitting. Matisse, Cézanne, Toulouze-Lautrec, there is much more for sure....I will keep adding to this list as they come to me. Yves Klein, Hans Bellmer, Unica Zurn, Max Ernst, Tanguay, Henri Cartier-Bresson, where was Man Ray from ? Magma, Gilbert Artman, Richard Pinhas-Heldon, does Gong Count, I think Faust lives there too nowadays ? I love the weird art fusion sort of space rock era stuff, I don't know the french punk stuff as well as I should, or the modern day scene - but I really think Aluk Todolo is interesting and the Gunslingers too. Maybe that is good for now. Unica Zurn was with Hans Bellmer and she died in France but she was german I guess. I think it counts though she was one of my favorite surrealists for sure. A. Giacometti of course I love his drawings.
How do you see the world we live in today ?
I see the world through eye glasses nowadays - I like what I see sometimes, and other times it saddens me to no end. I want to try to focus on the things I can take some control over - my feelings, and my ideas are mine - but I want to freely share them - if anyone is interested. I have a lot to learn, but I want to look at life as an adventure not a punishment. I wish for all to find peace within ,and be strong enough to fight off any force trying to hold them back from that goal. I get stoked on people that are not selfish, but are kind and gentle. I am not down with wars. I like the idea of trying to leave things less messed up than you found them - or at least leaving a different kind of mess there, if you are messy. Some things do matter and should be considered carefully. But it is important to me to try to find reasons to laugh, and feel and attempt to find true happiness. It can be ugly out there, or it can be what you try to make it. That is probably all, I think for now. Thanks for considering my ramblings. I am not a prized speller, and take a lot of artistic license with spelling on many occasions mostly on accident. Enjoy your life - use your eyes more often to see. Rich Jacobs - 2013 Oakland
