Words with Jordan Cooper

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Hi Jordan, how and why did you end up in the hardcore scene ?

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My friends growing up in Putnam County, NY were all punks. They watched Eraserhead, First Blood, Clockwork Orange, read Soldier of Fortune, wore biker jackets, got kicked out of school for having the Anarchist Cookbook etc. I hung out with them all the time, but I didn't really like much of the punk music that I'd heard. My friend Chris Guiguler (not sure about the spelling) and I were talking about it one time and he told me about this kind of punk called "hardcore" that he'd heard on a college radio station from Connecticut and this one band that he thought was great. I don't remember the name of the band he mentioned, but that summer my family moved thirty miles west across the border to Danbury, Connecticut and I soon found out what he was talking about. The radio station was WXCI and there was a hardcore show on there that played local bands as well as more well known punk and hc. It was 1983, I was in a new school and had absolutely no friends. Ray Cappo was in English class and was in one of the bands that got played on WXCI and was friends with the guy who did the radio show (Darryl from No Milk On Tuesday). Ray noticed a weird mix of AC/DC, Yes, punk and Pink Floyd scribblings on my notebook (a notebook "covered in anarchy signs" as he remembers it I think) and started talking to me about music. After that I was pretty much indoctrinated into the CT hardcore scene by Ray and his friends.

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What did hardcore mean to you at that time ?

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At first hardcore seemed like a weird urban tribe with loud fast heavy music, aggressive dance, ripped up clothes etc. Then it slowly took over my life and became one of the most important things to me. To look back and describe what I liked about it is difficult because it's all been said before. The hardcore scene in CT was a free, hidden subculture where people had a different view of the world and a lot of the social norms and opinions of the larger culture didn't matter. It was a new tribe with no leader, centered around music that made you a part of it.

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How do you feel about this era of your life more than 20 years later ?

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Like anyone, I see different things in the past the further I get from it. It was a lot of fun, it shaped my life.

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What were the most important 80's bands for you ?

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I'm not a good historian because I've got a terrible memory and only started going to hardcore shows in 1983. I believe the early bands were the most important because they defined the whole thing. My knowledge isn't terribly deep, for example, if you asked me to name the people who were in Teen Idles besides Ian, I'd have to guess or check the record. In my mind people like Ian, Tesco Vee, Harley, Roger, Brian Baker, Jello, Henry, and hundreds of other people were the ones who created hardcore in the beginning. Hopefully someone will document how it all started at some point.

Why did you choose to create a music label ? Why not another job ?

I didn't want to start a label, I just wanted to do something and be a part of the scene. I tried out for a couple of bands, I started a band, I wrote for a zine, but nothing really worked out. I didn't even really understand what a label was at first, I just wanted to put out a record. Then Ray had more and more ideas about what to do and it became a label.

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Ray and Jordan, 2011. Photo Larry Ransom.

There's more information about how we picked the name in my interview in "All Ages", but here's something I wrote in an interview for Tim from Awake zine (but I think the interview might have been for something called 3 chords). I came up with the name Schism. Ray was hung up on the idea of things being "positive". He was actually a little religious too (I was an atheist) and I always suspected that had something to do why he prefered the name Revelation to Schism. The reason I didn't mind the name was because I thought the idea of revelation coming from experiences was coll. Despite that, I insisted on Schism and even got as far as having labels for the Warzone 7'' designed using that name. In the end Ray told me (still haven't gotten around to asking Matt if this is true or not) that Bold would do their album-that was supposed to come out on Wishing Well, but was taking forever- with us, but only if we used the name Revelation. I said "ok" and that was it.

How about the logo ?

Here's a fun fact I wrote up about the logo. We haven't used it yet, but we probably will at some point so you might want to pull some info out of it and edit it down to what you need. We used stars on the first few releases as a background which was Ray's idea. He liked how Dangerhouse had black and yellow bars as their background on the labels so he wanted us to have something to identify Rev with like that. We got a Letraset sheet of stars and used it on the first three records we put out. The fourth record was going to be the Gorilla Biscuits 7" and their friend (who would later join the band as a second guitar player), Alex Brown offered to do the layout for them. Alex took the star concept and put the letter "r" in a star and had the label name under it inside a box. Ray, Alex and Porcell all lived together in Brooklyn at the time so Ray saw the artwork before I did. He really liked the idea and called me to tell me about it. From his description over the phone I re-created it. That was the logo we ended up using because we had already used it on a few things (probably flyers, catalogs and ads). We used it on the GB 7" and the Side By Side and No For An Answer records and repressings of the Sick of it all 7" too. Then we were working with Dave Bett at our main distributor Important on the layout for the New York City Hardcore-The Way It Is compilation and he offered to clean it up for us. He did and that's basically the logo we've been using ever since.

Did you see straight-edge as a sort of "revelation", I mean like you found your way ?

These are great in depth questions. Most people don't ask this kind of stuff for some reason. I personally didn't see straight-edge as a revelation, but I tried to imagine that it was for some people. I wasn't straight-edge; to me revelations were always psychological shifts in the way I saw the world. Drugs sometimes helped in opening my eyes to things, sometimes talking to people or reading something did, so to me revelation didn't have to do with straight-edge at all. I did keep in mind that it might be a huge revelation for other people so I tried not to be critical.

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Were you influenced by some philosophy or was it something you just did and created on your own ?

I'm not sure if you were asking what philosophy influenced me with respect to straight-edge, but as I said, i wasn't so I can't answer that. I was not well educated or well read, but there were a few people who influenced my philosophy then, most were friends, but some books and bands lyrics helped shape my thinking of course.

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Who decided to sign the bands at first ?

I wanted to release a 7" for Warzone and after that I think Ray picked most of the bands for the 7" compilation and the next few releases (with some input from me). Then on the LP version of the NYHC compilation "The Way It Is" we both decided on the bands. After Ray got into Krishna, I ended up taking over the label and had to start making the decisions on who to sign on my own. I relied on friends like Porcell and Dylan (Schreifels) and the bands themselves (for example Alan Cage from Quicksand was also in Burn and told me that Burn should be on Rev) for a while and then by the time I got to Huntington Beach I was pretty used to it.

What about the 90's bands ?

The group of people that the label had worked with in the late 80's was large enough to provide the label with new bands and input on other bands through the early 90's. Every band has a different story so I can't take credit for signing any of them purely on my own. Walter (Schreifels) was friend with Farside so they ended up on Revelation. Someone told me to get the Sense Field demo from Zeds which I did. By the time I got to listening to it, it was months later and they were already pretty popular, but luckily they agreed to work with us. Iceburn had a friend, Stormy Shepherd, who really tried to get me to listen to them, which I finally did and ended up working with them. They were friends with Engine Kid and that's how they ended up on the label. Similar stories behind Texas Is The Reason and Elliott.

Did you feel the same "revelation" for these bands ?

Most music takes time to really get to me so it would be wrong to apply that word. My favorite bands have all been ones that I listened to once, put away and then for some reason came back to and played it constantly until I had the entire record memorized. That's what happened with Farside. Walter decided to have Crisis put their 7" out and I heard it a few times but when it came out I listened to it non-stop. The same thing happened with Sense Field. Someone told me to listen to their demo, so I bought one at Zed Records and played it a couple of times. Then a few months later I started playing it everyday and wrote them a postcard asking if we could put them out.

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Which bands were your favorite at this time ?

I love all the bands of those years and the time I spent with them. Sometimes even now those records are played I realize that there are things I didn't even appreciate about them back when that was pretty much all I was listening to. The word "revelation" didn't really apply during that time. At that point I wasn't in a flexible state of mind and was just focused on putting out records and running the label. Farside, Engine Kid, Texas Is The Reason, Sense Field, Shades Apart, Into Another, Quicksand, and probably a few other bands that I'm forgetting (and who may or may not have been on Rev) were my favorite bands at the time. I was lucky to work with them and grateful to have them as friends. I don't know that any of those bands had a cohesive philosophy. They definitely didn't write as if they did. Slow John from Sense Field laughed about it to me when I asked him if they had any sort of central idea behind the band. As I recall it, he said something like "there's nothing that really sums".

Why did you create Crisis Records ? Because of the crisis of the straight-edge philosophy ?

Hardcore was my religion and my life from 1983 through the late 1980's. After going to Europe with GB in 1989 I was getting into different music (mostly Swans and Coil) as were a lot of people who were "hardcore kids". I saw it as an identity crisis where you had a very clear idea of who you were and all of a sudden it wasn't enough anymore. The name was supposed to be half serious, no clear mission, just something different.

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.Crisis Records #1, 1990.

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How do you see hardcore towards music in general ?

I loved it. I'd always loved music and hardcore eclipsed everything else for years of my life.

Do you see hardcore dead or alive today ?

It seems like it's still going. I'm not really listening to a lot of new stuff, but there seem to be just as many bands now as ever. The funny thing to me is that in 1982, hardcore was really new and Led Zeppelin seemed like ancient history, but more time has passed between 1982 and now than had passed between the time Led Zeppelin put out their first record and 1982. Somehow hardcore is not yet a dinosaur probably because it never really got that big.

How do you see Revelation in music history ?

Not sure what you mean here. I think Revelation's place in hardcore is pretty clear. It came from the scene that Ray and Porcell helped form around Youth Of Today when they moved to NY that included some really amazing people who formed some really great bands. From there the connections continued and evolved as those people's music changed and evolved. In the 90s when Rev moved to California there were new people involved and that brought in some different bands.

What are your favorite Rev releases ?

That's too hard to answer.

Why did you stop putting out hardcore bands in the early 90's ?

That's a funny question because I never thought that we stopped putting out hardcore. When Quicksand and Into Another and Farside and some other records started coming out, I guess people thought that wasn't hardcore anymore and I guess in a way that's true. My standard answer for this question is that my friends started making different music, I (like a lot of people) liked that music and either asked to put the records out or said "yes" when the bands asked if I wanted to put the records out. Also, my tastes and other people at Rev's tastes changed over time (just as everyone's tends to) and that led to some different releases too.

 

What is the future for Rev ?

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We're putting out a few discography records (Mouthpiece, Verbal Assault, Underdog) and a compilation of covers of early Rev bands' songs. Brian Peterson is doing a book about 90's hardcore. Tony Rettman is writing a book covering midwest hardcore and how it influenced hardcore all over. That's about it.

 

Who are the most important people you met in your life ?

What kind of question is that ? To keep the list short, here are only a few of the people who changed the way I think: Tim Yohannon, Stacey Murray, Syd from CCM, Ray Cappo, Vern and Gavin Young, Christy Colcord, Richie Birkenhead, Porcell.

What are your greatest memories until now ?

I'm pretty old so that list is long. I'll just mention a few of the best Rev-related memories: The Youth Of Today tour in 1985 with 7 Seconds, and again in 1989, the GB tour in 1989.

What kind of music catch you today ?

I mostly listen to older music. I'm playing Mouthpiece right now, but mainly I've been listening to Rush, Grand Funk and Yes for the past few weeks.

Do you still feel "out of step with the world" ?

I never really thought of that term applying to me. I usually think of myself as an outcast even among outcasts. But to answer your question; more than ever.

How do you feel being an american today ?

Better than I felt four (or eight) years ago, but shit, what a mess.

Words with Jon Bunch

Hi Jon, I'd like to start with Reason To Believe. Why did you start this band ?


My friends and I were heavily into punk/hardcore and were playing music. There were a couple of bands we had going on and my friend Chris who was an excellent drummer and played some guitar too. He was taking a recording class in college. He recorded his songs and asked me to sing on them. R2B formed because of that demo.


What were your major influences ?


At that time all we listened to was punk, nothing else. I wanted to sing like Jerry A from Poison Idea, Minor Threat, Bad Brains, Bad Religion...

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Who composed the songs ?


For the demo, Chris wrote the music and some lyrics too, I started writing some lyrics. Then when we got Rodney in R2B, he wrote some of the music along with Chris, I wrote the lyrics that was for the 7 inch.


What is your favorite release ?


I don't really have a favorite release for R2B, it seemed like a pretty standard progression to do a demo, then a 7 inch, then a full record. I was pretty young during it all, most of the songs were about the scene.


Greatest memories ?


We had some good shows that I remember pretty well, opening for the Dickies at Fenders Ballroom was pretty amazing for us. Opening for Scream was great, playing with Fugazi was great, Operation Ivy too. I think meeting some of the other bands at the time was maybe the best part. Getting to know the kids in bands and making friends, many of them are still my friends today.

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Did you feel part of the hardcore scene ?

We were definitely part of the HardCore scene, not just because of the band. My friends & I had been going to shows for years and the punk/hardcore scene was something that meant a lot to us. The way the younger hardcore bands started to get to know each other and play together was through our demos. Zed Records would buy your demo tapes and there would usually be 5 to 10 bands that had their demos available. So everybody would buy each other's demos and call each other up to either set up a show or hang out. We got to know many bands this way.


What about the rerelease of the cd ?


Frank Harrison, who was a staple in the punk scene, started a label called Nemesis Records. He worked at Zed Records and started to put out bands on his label. He also was the one who was responsible for getting us our shows. R2B had a hard time keeping band members. We lose a drummer, then a bass player, so it was difficult finding people to stay in the band, which made it difficult to play shows...As far as a rerelease, our buddy Jeremy Weiss of C.I. Records was supposed to do it years ago, but so far it hasn't happened.

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Let's continue with Sense Field. Why did you start a new band ?

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Sense Field started for a few reasons, we finally got a lineup that was secure. The music we were writing wasn't something we felt was right for R2B. The scene was changing, we were changing and the music was reflecting those changes.
 

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Photo : Dave Sine

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Who wrote the songs, music and lyrics ?


Rodney and Chris wrote the music, Rodney and I wrote the lyrics.


How was the public reaction at the first shows ?


I think that people were interested in what we were doing, some people like it, some people didn't. The earliest shows were just our friends coming out to party. They were really fun shows.


Why did you leave Revelation after "Building" ?


We had done three records with Revelation and Warner Bros. signed us.


What do you think of the "major" era ?


As a band, our experience on a major label was terrible, we were completely unable to record a record, something that seemed so natural and fun for us became seemingly impossible. We took too long recording, we spent too much money, we wrote crappy material, we took too much time off, we overanalyzed our music.


Why did you end the band ?
 

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The band ended after 13 years, we probably should've ended after Building or the Part of the Deal ep. Those were the last two releases that seemed to have the original spark SF started with. The band had exhausted pretty much every avenue that we could possibly go down. Sense Field never could get a grasp on the business side of music, we made bad business decisions that hurt us for most of our existence. The band grew apart, some of us started families and had kids. So it just finally ended.

Where are the songs on "To End A Letter" coming from besides the ones on compilation or split ?


I think it was a last ditch effort to get all the left over songs out at once.


Do you feel comfortable when you read Sense Field was an emo band ?


Sure, it's become somewhat of an uncool tag, but in the early years, many bands we admired were called emo...


Like ?


Well, Dag Nasty, Rites of Spring, Embrace were the first Emo Records, Fugazi.


Do you feel comfortable when people say you were a christian band ?


You can call the band whatever you want, but it doesn't make it true, SF was never a Christian band.


What is your favorite SF album ?


Sadly, probably the first ep we put out... When I had a vision of what I wanted to do musically, that was it. Building is a good record for the time, I think the Part of the Deal ep has some cool moments. It sounds like a real band. The last two records seem synthetic to me... The Warner Bros record I think is a piece of shit...  

 

What are your greatest memories ?

So many great memories, too many to mention. The touring was so much fun, we had some great times. Sense Field was a good band that had great moments, some of those moments were as great as a band could have. We had some great parties too. We met some amazing people along the way.

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Do you stay in touch with the Sense Field guys ?
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Some, most of us are busy with kids and what not. Popeye from Farside saw John Stockberger in a Chinese Parade in downtown Los Angeles wearing full Chinese Garb... that sounds about right.
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Any chance for a reunion ?
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I just received an e-mail from a promoter in Holland to come out for a festival...so I would never rule it out... but it's not likely at the moment.


Can you talk a bit about your time with Further Seems Forever ?


I was in the band for about three years. I sang on the last release Hide Nothing. It was a good situation for me, they were a band who needed someone to sing on their record, I was available. I have friends in Florida who I got to hang out with. We got to go Europe, Japan...


What about Fields Forever ?


When FSF was in Europe, the drummer quit the tour, he didn't want to be away from home. So, we had to finish much of the tour acoustic. Promoters weren't sure if it was going to work, but once they saw it did, they asked us to come back. Marco from Avacado Booking is a friend from the SF days and asked if we wanted to come over to do an acoustic tour. My friend Jeremy Weiss of C.I. Records decided it was a good chance to get to some of the cities that SF never made it to, so we booked shows in Dublin, Rome, places that we wanted to see but never had the chance, so we did it and it was fun. We played SF, FSF new songs and a couple of covers.





What was the most important band for you between Reason To Believe, Sense Field or Further Seems Forever ?


Well Reason To Believe was important to me at the time, because I really believed in what we were doing... Sense Field was our baby, the band I had always hoped for, in the beginning at least...Further Seems Forever was more fun with guys that became friends, it was never my band. I was the third singer for God sake.


I'd like to go on with more personal questions. What was the meaning of hardcore for you ?


Punk rock and hardcore gave me something to believe in, something to be in to. It gave me a scene to be part of, music to love. Some of the things I saw changed me forever...
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Mostly bands and the music, seeing Bad Brains in 85 blew me away and I've never been the same, they were singing about God and hope, It made me want to do that.


Do you still have an interest for it today ?


I still listen to my favorite old punk records...


What about straight-edge ? Were you involved in that ?


Never was straight edge.


Do you still feel "out of step with the world" ?


I don't feel out of step with the world other than I think the world seems to be falling apart at the moment...


What is your relation to religion ?


I've always believed in God, never was too much into church or religion, but I do believe in God.


Who are the people and bands who had the greatest influence in your life ?


My family, my friends, musically speaking, the Bad Brains changed my life, I like the Verve and Richard Ashcroft, U2...


Why did you choose to sing and not playing some instrument ?


When I was young couldn't afford one... so I sang.

What is the meaning of music for you ?


Music has always been something I could turn to. I didn't enjoy music for many of the Sense Field years, because the business side of music turned me off to it. But I like music again now that I'm not around the business side.


Have you other passions besides music ?


History, being a Dad...


Did you play in France ? What do you think about this country ?


I've been to France a few times, I love France. I was in Paris on Bastille Day and it was one of the wildest parties I've ever been to.


How do you make a living today now that you're out of music ?


I work with one of my close friends at his business, I want to eventually work in education on some level, but not sure what...


"Love is building", do you still feel the same ?


I do feel the same, having kids changes you, you're all they've got. I want to be there for him.

Words with Russ Rankin

Hi Russ, how did you end up in Good Riddance ?

I agreed to "sing" in a group a few of my friends were starting. We had no idea what we were doing. Years went by and we managed to play a few local shows. In 1990 Luke joined the band (he had played in a thrash band called "Rude Awakening" who we had played some shows with) and that's when I would say that we started to get really serious. After Luke joined we actually tried to be a band.

What are your greatest memories with them ?

Being able to travel all over the world and meet so many awesome people and great bands.

What is your favorite GR album ?

I really like "Symptoms of A Leveling Spirit" and also "My Republic" which ended up being our last studio album.

Did you feel at home on Fat Wreck Chords, like a family ?

We were very fortunate to land on FAT and we enjoyed everything about being on that label. We were treated well and afforded every opportunity to grow.

What is the goal now with Only Crime ?

To continue to push musical boundaries and perform live as much as our schedules will allow.

What about this solo career you seem to start ?

I am slowly assembling some of my own songs and I'd like to se what happens with them.

Why did you choose "Walk the line" on the Cash compilation tribute ?

I liked the song and honestly I first thought that "When The Man Comes Around" was taken. "I Walk The Line" was alot of fun to record though and I think it turned out really well.

What attracted you first in hardcore/punk ?

The political aspect of it; that it was visceral, honest, aggressive music which seemed to want to go beyond simple entertainment.

What is the meaning of hardcore for you ?

The purest form of musical expression. An outlet for people who aren't given a voice by straight society.

What about straight-edge ?

It's my lifestyle and it has helped shape my values and provided the lens through which I view the world and my involvement with music.

Do you still listen to hardcore music ? Do you think hardcore is still alive today ?

I listen to mostly punk/hardcore music from the late 1970's and early 1980's. I think that aggressive music is still alive today but alot has changed and I wouldn't call what's going on today "punk" or "hardcore."

Do you really believe in politic as a way of change ?

I think it can be. More than that I think that politics is our avenue of understanding the world and I believe we can't change things unless we first understand them.

What are the bands and people who had the greatest impact in your life ?

Sick Of It All, Youth of Today, Cro Mags, Insted, Dave Smalley, Bill Stevenson, Mike Burkett, Greg Graffin, Richard Butler, Noam Chomsky.

Why did you choose to sing and not playing an instrument ?

I didn't know how to play an instrument when I joined my first "band".

Do you still feel "out of step" today ?

Yes. I am often in situations where I am the only person who doesn't drink or eat meat.

Did you read the book of Noah Levine "Dharma Punx" ? It seems you know each other...

Yes I did read it and yes I have known Noah a long time.

 

Did you write a journal during all these years on the road like Henry Rollins ?

I started writing a tour journal in 1998 when my previous band was on tour in Europe with AFI and kept going until the end of that band.

Do you appreciate any music coming from France ?

I honestly don't know very much about French music - punk or otherwise.

What do you feel about Europe in general and France in particular ?

I like Europe and I wish the United States had health care and no death penalty like you guys. I also wish we had a free press like many European countries. We just elected a President in an election where our media only reported on 2 of our several political parties.

Do you remember this show in a little club of Clermont-Ferrand with Buckwild (1997) ?

Yes - it was a weird night. The people in the club hated us and couldn't wait for us to leave. A very awkward night.

Do you still surf ?

Yes!